Wednesday, 6 June 2012

LECTURE BY HIS HOLINESS BHAKTI CARU SWAMI ON SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM 04- 25-33 ON 1 OCTOBER 2010.


Jaya Radha-Madhava Kunja-Vihari
Gopi-Jana-Vallabha Giri-Vara-Dhari
Yasoda-Nandana Braja-Jana-Ranjana
Yamuna-Tira-Vana-Cari
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
Jaya om visnu-pada paramahamsa parivrajakacarya astottara-sata Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Maharaja Prabhupada ki jaya!
Ananta koti vaisnava-vrnda ki jaya!
Namacarya Srila Haridasa Thakura ki jaya!
Premse kaho Sri Krsna Caitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Sri Advaita, Gadadhara, Srivasadi Gaurabhakta-vrnda ki jaya!
Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, Gopa-Gopinatha, Syama-kunda, Radha-kunda, Giri-Govardhana ki jaya!
Vrndavana-dhama ki jaya!
Navadvipa-dhama ki jaya!
Yamuna-mayi ki jaya!
Ganga-mayi ki jaya!
Tulasi-devi ki jaya!
Bhakti-devi ki jaya!
Gaura-premanande hari-haribol!
“Chant the names of the Lord in the ecstasy of love for Lord Caitanya.”
Samaveta bhakta-vrnda ki jaya!
“All glories to the assembled devotees.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.25.33:
na vidama vayam samyak
kartaram purusarsabha
atmanas ca parasyapi
gotram nama ca yat-krtam
SYNONYMS
na — do not; vidama — know; vayam — I; samyak — perfectly; kartaram — maker; purusarsabha — O best of human beings; atmanah — of myself; ca — and; parasya — of others; api —
also; gotram — family history; nama — name; ca — and; yat-krtam — which has been made by
whom.
TRANSLATION
The girl said: O best of human beings, I do not know who has begotten me. I cannot speak to you
perfectly about this. Nor do I know the names or the origin of the associates with me.
PURPORT
The living entity is ignorant of his origin. He does not know why this material world was
created, why others are working in this material world and what the ultimate source of this
manifestation is. No one knows the answers to these questions, and this is called ignorance. By
researching into the origin of life, important scientists are finding some chemical compositions or
cellular combinations, but actually no one knows the original source of life within this material
world. The phrase brahma-jijnasa is used to indicate an inquisitiveness to know the original
source of our existence in this material world. No philosopher, scientist or politician actually
knows wherefrom we have come, why we are here struggling so hard for existence and where we
will go. Generally people are of the opinion that we are all here accidentally and that as soon as
these bodies are finished all our dramatic activities will be finished and we will become zero.
Such scientists and philosophers are impersonalists and voidists. In this verse the girl is
expressing the actual position of the living entity. She cannot tell Pura├▒jana her father’s name
because she does not know from where she has come. Nor does she know why she is present in
that place. She frankly says that she does not know anything about all this. This is the position of
the living entity in the material world. There are so many scientists, philosophers and big leaders,
but they do not know wherefrom they have come, nor do they know why they are busy within
this material world to obtain a position of so-called happiness. In this material world we have
many nice facilities for living, but we are so foolish that we do not ask who has made this world
habitable for us and has arranged it so nicely. Everything is functioning in order, but people
foolishly think that they are produced by chance in this material world and that after death they
will become zero. They think that this beautiful place of habitation will automatically remain.
om ajnana-timirandhasya
jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena
tasmai sri-gurave namah
sri-caitanya-mano-’bhistam
sthapitam yena bhu-tale
svayam rupah kada mahyam
dadati sva-padantikam
vande ‘ham sri-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun vaisnavams ca
sri-rupam sagrajatam saha-gana-raghunathanvitam tam sa-jivam
sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam krsna-caitanya-devam
sri-radha-krsna-padan saha-gana-lalita-sri-visakhanvitams ca
he krsna karuna-sindho
dina-bandho jagat-pate
gopesa gopika-kanta
radha-kanta namo ‘stu te
tapta kancana gaurangi
radhe vrndavanesvari
vrsabhanu-sute devi
pranamami hari-priye
vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca
krpa-sindhubhya eva ca
patitanam pavanebhyo
vaisnavebhyo namo namah
sri-krsna-caitanya
prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara
srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda
hare krsna hare krsna
krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama
rama rama hare hare
SB 04-25-33
na vidama vayam samyak
kartaram purusarsabha
atmanas ca parasyapi
gotram nama ca yat-krtam
The girl said: O best of human beings, I do not know who has begotten me. I cannot speak to you
perfectly about this. Nor do I know the names or the origin of the associates with me.
So, this is the story of king Puranjana. King Puranjana is the living entity. The living entity is
travelling in this material nature, transmigrating from one body to another. And in course of his
journey sometimes he is going up and sometimes going down. Sometimes he is going up to the
higher planetary systems where he has wonderful facilities for sense gratification and sometimes
he’s going down to the lower planetary system, where also they have sense gratification but they
are subterranean planets, there that sense gratification is there but of a different kind.
So in the material nature the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another body and is
trying to enjoy. bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantrarudhani mayaya (BG 18.61). Mayaya by the
arrangement of the external energy of the Lord, Maya, bhramayan is travelling, sarva-bhutani, all
the living entities, yantrarudhani, riding in a machine, yantra riding in a vehicle. What is the
vehicle? This body is the vehicle. And sometimes we are getting a body, superior type of body
providing higher facilities of enjoyment and sometimes we are getting a body which is subject to
various kinds of sufferings.
So that is the condition of a living entity in this material nature. Puranjana was travelling and in
course of his travel Puranjana came to a very special place, the land of Bharat-varsha. Northern
part is the Himalayan mountains and in the southern part is the salt water ocean. And in this land
of Bharat-varsha he got a very special body, the body of a human being. And in course of his
travel he came across the queen of the land. This discussion is taking place between that queen.
Who’s the queen? The queen is intelligence.
And here she is admitting, the material intelligence, she’s admitting that she doesn’t know what’s
her origin and nor does she know the origin of her other associates. Who are the other associates
of intelligence? Mind, the ten senses, then the life air, the five kinds of air which are in the form
of a snake, five-hooded snake protecting the land, protecting the kingdom, protecting the body.
All the functions of the body is taking place due to the activities of these five airs. Prana, apana,
samana, vyana and udana. All the functioning of the body starting from respiratory system to
evacuation system, all the functioning nervous system, digestive system, all these are actually
being controlled by diffrenet types of air. Prana, apana, samana, vyana and udana. And this snake
is very expert in protecting the city. But eventually we’ll see that how, when Kalayavana, death
personified (Yamaraja) attacked, then what happened, everything fell apart. The city of nine
gates, this human body was devastated. The five airs who were protecting the body so nicely had
to succumb to the onslaught of Kalayavana, especially when Kala-kanyavana embraced
Puranjana. Kala-kanyavana, the time in the form of a beautiful woman, embraced him. And the
result is he became devoid of all his strength. Although Puranjana was very powerful, specially
surrounded by all his associates, heading with the queen, headed by the queen or intelligence.
When Kala-kanya embraced him, he lost all his strength, he was completely helpless and then
Kala Yavan raja. Yamaraja and his associates.
The spirit soul is now taken away,(i.e.) Puranjana is taken away.. anyway that is I don’t want to
get into that. The point to this purport, Kala-kanya, I’m sorry, the queen is admitting that na te
vidama I do not know, vayam us / our, samyak kartaramà purusarsabha purusarsabha means
addressing him (Puranjana) as the best of the human beings, purusha rishbha the best of the
human beings. atmanas ca myself, parasyapi of others. I’m surrounded by my associates, but I do
not know where you all came from. And Prabhupada is elaborating on that point that in the
material nature everyone is in ignorance of his origin, nobody can nobody knows in this material
nature about his origin (unclear). And that’s why the material nature is known as the place of
ignorance. It has been identified as avidya, it has been identified as tamasah, the dark place of
darkness, place of ignorance, place of… place of illusion, where everyone is bewildered, all the
way up to Brahma. We can see when Brahma was born, when Brahma appeared, although he
directly appeared from the navel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the first created being
in the universe, came directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and he himself didn’t
know where he came from. He began to wonder, Brahma’s situation was like, he woke up and he
found that he is in a strange place and he didn’t have any recollection of where he came from, he
didn’t have any recollection of his past.
As human beings are born in ignorance, they’re, when they’re born, they don’t have any
knowledge whatsoever. Even the material knowledge, they have to acquire the knowledge
gradually, through their sense perception and experiences. They gradually develop their
knowledge, we all have… Like when we are born, we are in total ignorance. But Brahma at least
when he woke, he appeared as if he just woke up in a strange place and he did not have any
understanding, any recollection of who he was. He saw himself sitting on a lotus; he saw that the
lotus was situated on the Garbha Ocean.
And nobody was around, it was just him alone, sitting on a lotus, and he didn’t have any idea
who he was, where he came from, and what he was supposed to do. And because he is Brahma,
he could immediately get into action, he tried to figure out, “Let me find out. If I find out the
stem of this lotus, then probably I’ll know; I’ll get to know where I came from.”
But in spite of a long, long endeavour, climbing down, he could not find out what his origin was.
And Bhagavatam describes he came very close to the navel of the Lord, his origin, but still, he
could not understand. Why? Because with the material senses we cannot perceive the spiritual
reality. Unless and until our senses are spiritualised, we will not be able to perceive the spiritual
reality.
The spiritual reality is not perceivable by our material senses. That is, and that applies even for
Brahma. And then Brahma was instructed from within by the Lord, within and without also.
From without, the indication, the direction came from the splashing of the waves on the Garbha
Ocean, creating a sound, tapah, tapah, and the waves splashed against each other.
And that kind of inspired, prachodayat, inspired Brahma from within, “Let me meditate.” So then
Brahma meditated, that means he withdrew his senses, projected them internally and the Lord
also very mercifully gave him the Gayatri. Tene brahma hrda adi kavaye, muhyanti yat surayah:
The Lord Himself gave the Gayatri Mantra to him, by playing His flute.
So Brahma meditated on the Gayatri, and as a result of that, Brahma achieved his spiritual
perfection. Brahma saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. Chintamani prakara
sadmasu kalpa vriksha: He saw the spiritual sky, it’s a beautiful place, made of, the land there is
made of chintamani. It’s a forest, but the trees there are kalpa-vriksha, desire trees. And surabhi
abhipalaantam: there are many, many cows; the Lord is tending those cows and all those cows
are surabhi cows.
And there are many, many damsels, who are serving Him. Who are those damsels? They are
Lakshmi, lakshmi-sahasra sata sambramha sevyamanau. And he saw the Lord, venum kvananta
aravavinda dalayataksham, barhavatam samasitam budha sundarangam, kandarpa koti kamaniya
vishesha shobha. That is how Brahma saw. After he achieved his spiritual perfection, with his
spiritualised senses, he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is playing a flute, with
venum kvanantam.
His eyes are aravinda dalayataksham, wide, beautiful as lotus petals. And His form is so
beautiful, that millions of Cupids are enchanted by His beauty. So that is the way to perceive the
spiritual reality. Also, Prabhupada explains that how the spiritual reality is perceived in different
phases. Brahmeti paramatmeti, bhagavan iti shabdyate: this Bhagavan- realization, Bhagavan
perception, is the ultimate. The preliminary perception is brahmajyoti. Through jnana, one sees
the brahmajyoti. Through jnana, the endeavour of knowledge, through the intellectual endeavour,
one can see only the, the bodily effulgence, the blinding bodily effulgence of the Supreme
Personality of Godhead. It blinds one, just like from darkness when one goes to broad daylight
all of a sudden. If a man is in a dark room for many, many days and then all of a sudden he is
made to look at the sun, what will happen? He’ll just get blinded. So that’s what happens to the
jnanis. They just see the light and they become blind, they can’t go any further. But the yogis, by
meditating at the core of their hearts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, see Him as the
Supersoul, Paramatmeti. But through devotion, when one develops a loving relationship with the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he sees Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who
is goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma bhuta, who resides in Goloka Vrindavan.
So one can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead provided he follows the proper process. And
we are very fortunate that Shrila Prabhupada, that we came across Shrila Prabhupada and his
teachings. We came across ISKCON, through which, the institution through which Shrila
Prabhupada has presented, made the arrangement for the whole world to receive this information
which is otherwise impossible to have.
The most important criteria, the most important factor for receiving knowledge is a qualified
teacher. Just books are not enough. Bhagavad-gita, Shrimad-Bhagavatam, all the scriptures have
been there. Many of us even read them many a times, but what was our understanding? Didn’t
understand anything. And we realised that when we came across Shrila Prabhupada.
When we came across Shrila Prabhupada, everything became crystal clear. Many of us grew up
with Ramayan and Mahabharat stories, but through Ramayan and Mahabharat, what do we find?
What is the destination? We find that the sages are performing austerities for thousands of years
to be elevated to heavenly planets. Mahabharat is not going beyond that, Ramayan is not going
beyond that, just heavenly planets.
Sarbhanga Rishi performed such austerities, Ramachandra came and saw him, met him.
Sarbhanga was waiting for Ramachandra to come and when Ramachandra came, when He was
in exile in the forest, then He saw that there was a chariot and there was somebody in the chariot
and as soon as Ramachandra came, he just disappeared. So Ramachandra asked, pastimes, “Just
who that was?” Sarbhanga said, “That was Indra. He came to take me to the heavenly planet. But
I just wanted to wait for some time because I knew You were coming, so I wanted to have Your
darshan.
So apparently you can see that this is the destination that has been described there is just
heavenly planet. Of course within the lines you can see that in although Mahabharath is not
openly admitting that the spiritual sky but through Bhagavad Gita that becomes clear. ” yad
gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama” but although we may have read Mahabharata,
although we may have read Bhagavad Gita many times but that did not become clear, this
understanding was not clear.
But what is that region “na tad bhasayate suryo na sasanko na pavakah” where is that region.
We didn’t have any understanding, but when we read Prabhupada, Prabhupada pointed out that
beyond this material nature there is another reality. Prabhupada has made that point very very
clear that our destination is not higher planetary systems the brahmanda, this universe is within
the material nature and in this universe there are seven higher planetary systems and seven lower
planetary systems. And in the higher planetary systems we can have superior material comforts,
superior material enjoyment, but “ksine punye martya-lokam visanti”. One goes there by
acquiring piety and when the piety is exhausted “martya-lokam visanti” he falls down again in
this material nature, in this world of birth and death, earth planet, lower region. In the heavenly
planet there is no death as such, there is no death in heavenly planet but there is consideration of
falling down from the heavenly planet as it has been described in Bhagavad Gita “ksine punye
martya-lokam visanti”.
The same point also has been made in Mahabharath. One sage, the a chariot came from the
Swargaloka to take him to the heavenly planet, to Swargaloka. Then, when he was told that the
chariot has come that he has come to take him there then to Swargaloka, his question was, tell
me about Swargaloka, what is so special about going there. So the messenger who came on
behalf of Indra said Swargaloka is, he started to describe that the Swargaloka is so full of
wonderful material facilities for enjoyment. There are beautiful apsaraas and (43:23) at their
beck and call. There is no old age or disease and there we can drink nectar which gives them
unlimited energy, unlimited strength and there are beautiful flowers, gardens, where the flowers
never wither, Parijatha flowers, they don’t wither and in this way he just kept on describing the
beauty of the heavenly planet. Then he said, fine, you told me about the qualities of heavenly
planet, now tell me if there is any disqualification and then he started to describe, yes you see
when the piety, when one enjoys in the heavenly planet in exchange of that enjoyment, his piety
is deducted. One enjoys there and piety gets minus, just like you go to some place with money
in your pocket and as you enjoy you have to pay, in the heavenly planet you pay for your piety,
for your punya. And when your punya becomes exhausted then all of a sudden he falls down to
this earth planet, place of birth and death (Mrtyuloka) the place of death. So after hearing that he
said, I don’t need to go there. If some day I have to come back again, then what is the point in
going there, rather I will go to some place where, from where I will never have to come back
again. So that is, that shows that he was an intelligent person.
Now like we can consider that we have been very fortunate to have that information first-hand
from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada actually made it very very clear, that the destination,
ultimate destination is not higher planetary system and Prabhupada very graphically described it.
It is like in a prison house, you get promoted into becoming a first class prisoner. What is the big
deal about becoming a first class prisoner, you are already in the prison house. First class
prisoner, second class prisoner, third class prisoner, fifth class prisoner, you are in a prison.
In the first class prison you may have some facilities but is that a desirable destination?. No. So
the thing is the goal of life is to get out of this material nature. Systematically, these points have
been very, very precisely defined like, through Sankhya philosophy this has been defined
Sankhya analyses the material nature to do (46:37)___ consideration goes all the way up to
Mahatattva, five elements of the creation, pancha mahabooth, panchendriya, pancha
karmendriya, then pancha vishaya, five kinds of objects of the senses, twenty, then mind,
intelligence, and false ego, then mahatattva. The whole material nature has been analyzed. The
Sankhya, the goal of Sankhya is not just to analyze the material nature. The goal of Sankhya is
to transcend the material nature. That is what Sankhya is meant.
After twenty four consideration that we may be considering, they are all subjective, I’m sorry.
They are all objective by nature. But the object cannot exist without the subject. So what is the
subject? The subject is I. I am here, that is why the material nature is here. So everything is, all
these is dependent upon my existence here. So I, so who is that I. Where does that I comes
from. Obviously the I did not come from the material nature. I came from, the soul came from
another reality.
So the 25th scientific consideration of Sankhya is jivatma and the 26th consideration is
paramatma or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Krishna presents the Sankhya
philosophy in a very, very concise form in Bhagavad Gita. The same point Krishna is making
“bhumir apo analo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca ahankara itiyam me bhinna prakritir
astadha.
“Sankhya philosophy describes, analyzes the twenty four considerations. Krishna did it only
with eight considerations, earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligene and false ego. “bhinnna
prakritir astadha”. But then Krishna makes the point. “apareyam itas tv anyam” this nature is
inferior. This material nature consisting of eight elements, eight objects, eight considerations is
“apara”, inferior. “prakrtim viddhi me param” know it well that there is another reality beyond
this inferior material nature which is my superior energy, my superior nature and “jiva-bhutam
maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat”. The jiva-bhutam, the living entities are coming from that
superior nature and they are “yayedam dharyate jagat”. They are sustaining this material nature
and they are exploiting this material nature.
And Prabhupada makes the point even more simply. Prabhupada is making the point that around
us we see two types of objects. One is inert matter and the other is the living being. In this room
we can see, some objects are inert, like this microphone, this table, this seat, the floor, the walls,
the pillars, they are all made of inferior, rather they are inert matter. But we all, are we inert ? We
are living. Although the bodies are made of matter, but these bodies are living bodies. What
causes the bodies to be alive, what causes some bodies to be alive ? And that is the question.
Prabhupada made that point when he went to M.I.T.in Boston. They very proudly, they showed
different departments of the institue, the Massachusets Institute Of Technology. And at the end
of the tour Prabhupada asked : “Where is the department that discriminates between the dead
body and the living body, studies the difference between the dead body and the living body. That
is the subject that Prabhupada came to teach us. And we are very fortunate that we have been
exposed to those teachings. This verse, although it is saying that she did not know where she
came for, what was her origin, but actually we can say. We are very fortunate to know, we are
very fortunate that we know where we came from. That is Prabhupada’s mercy, that is our good
fortune. We know where we came from. We know that the spirit soul came from the spiritual
sky. The spirit soul is a part and parcel of Krishna And therefore as a spirit soul we must
develop our relationship with Krishna. Because the existence of the part is in its.., the perfection
or the utility of the existence of a part lies in its connection with the whole.
Srila Prabhupada again makes that point very simply. This little finger is a part of my body.
And as a part of this body, this little finger is so important. But if the litlle finger is cut off and is
lying on the floor, will this finger have any value? No. The utility or the value of the finger lies
in its connection with the whole body. When it is a part of this body it is so important, but when
it is seperated from the body, it is meaningless, it is useless.
Now the question is, how can a part become connected to the whole ? Here also Prabhupada
gives a very wonderful example. A tree has many, many, innumerable leaves. But each single
leaf is connected to the tree, for what? Because each single leaf is doing something for the sake
of the tree. It is transforming the food into energy for the tree, with the rays of the sun, with the
medium of the chlorophyl. Now when the leaf stops to serve the tree, what happens? It falls out
of the tree. So, what is the link ? What is the criteria that makes a part become connected to the
whole? What makes that link ? Service. So, we are separated from Krishna today, why ?
Because we stopped to serve Him. Now if we want to reestablish our connection with Krishna,
then we simply have to start to serve Him.
If a leaf that has fallen out of the tree somehow or other it can begin to serve the tree again. A
leaf cannot do that but we can. That is our prerogative that we have. A leaf that has fallen out of
the tree cannot become reconnected to the tree. But we, the living entities, as parts and parcels of
Krishna have the prerogative. It is up to our own volition, up to our own desire, up to our own
will. If we want to serve Krishna we can serve Krishna and by serving Krishna we can become
connected to Krishna.
And this is the advantage of coming accross a right teacher. What does a good teacher do ? The
good teacher makes the subject very simple. And that’s what Prabhupada did for us. Allthough
we are all dull headed, products of Kali-yuga. But by Prabhupada’s mercy this very complex
knowledge. “na te viduh sura-ganah prabhavarca maharsayah” Even the suras, the demi-gods do
not understand this topic. Maharsayah, the great sages, they cannot understand this. But this has
been so easily understood, this has been so easily conceived, simply by Srila Prabhupada’s
mercy.
And now it is up to us how we are going to utilize this knowledge. How we are going to
practically apply this knowledge in our own life. Theoretical understanding is important, but
theoretical understanding is not everything. The ultimate culmination of knowledge is in its
proper application. And there comes the sadhana bhakti, we have to practise, that’s why we are
all here, practising. And we know that if we properly practise this process, some day we will
achieve perfection, no doubt about it. When ? It does not matter. But let’s keep on practising.
Because when you practise, the process is so wonderful.
Again Prabhupada made another point here. For us it does not really matter whether we are here
or in the spiritual sky. Because when we will go to the spiritual sky, what will you do ? If we
become elevated to the spiritual sky now, what will we do there ? We will be doing whatever we
are doing now. So what is the difference? Therefore, for a devotee, he is perfectly situated
wherever he is. But what really matters, is the mercy of a pure devotee of the Lord.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!
Does anyone have any question ? Yes, Devakinandana Prabhu.
[Question Unclear] Maharaja, I can understand that…In the translation this girl says… I do not
know who has begotten me.. And in the purport Srila Prabhupada says that the living entity is
ignorant of his origin. Here in this whole thing the living entity is Puranjana and this girl is the
intelligence.. Now Prabhupada says the living entity is ignorant of its origin.
BCS : Well, Prabhupada is actually, although here this particular aspect is the intelligence which
will be clear afterwards. But Prabhupada is taking the condition of the living entity in the
material nature and in the purport he is explaining that. Prabhupada is not really going into that,
the intelligence aspect.. Prabhupada is pointing out that in the material nature nobody… She
actually makes the point. Me and others. That others can include not only her associates… The
‘others’ can also include the living entity..
BCS: Yes, Bhakta Rupa Prabhu
Question : The living entity approaches the intelligence to try to find out what is his origin and
the intelligence comes up with nothing. [Laughter BCS: Yes, that's also..] Is it not that what is
going on here in this story? Anyway, my question. You have very nicely presented this
description of svarga loka. It seems that svarga loka is a big, big, devious conspiracy to attract
those who are able to …
BCS : Those who did not come in contact with a bonafide spiritual master.
Question [continued] These messengers that are coming to take the people to svarga loka, do
they know that they are part of a conspiracy ? Or are they just…
BCS : No, no, they are also bewildered… For example when Indra sees that someone is
performing great austerities or somebody is performing asvamedha yajna, he becomes
concerned, he becomes worried that the person will come and take over my position. And he
makes all kinds of devious arrangements to dissuade the person from doing that. He sends
apsaras or he makes different kinds of… he steals the horses like in the case of Prithu Maharaja.
So he is also in equally ignorance, Indra in the heavenly planets, he also is in equal ignorance.
Question continued : So, it is not that they are intentionally cheating, thhey are actually doing for
their own good, they are just trying to keep their own position…,
BCS : The thought that comes to my mind, as an example, is that there are big, big institutes of
management. They are very sincerely teaching everybody how to be succesful in the material
nature, right ? And at the end of the day they don’t really have the information, they don’t have
the knowledge… They are sincerely trying to make people elevated to that position, thinking that
that is the ultimate goal of life. The residents of the heavenly planets are also in a similar
situation. They are thinking that elevation to the heavenly planets is the ultimate goal of life,
because they don’t have proper informations about the spiritual reality.
Question continued : Even Indra ?
BCS : You see, Indra is a devotee of some sort. But he is a karma misra bhakta, he is not a
suddha bhakta, meaning, he is still concerned about material enjoyment. He thinks by rendering
service to Krishna, by acting as Krishna’s agent or Vishnu’s agent, he is going to have his
desires fullfilled. He doesn’t know the fact of ‘anyabhilasita sunyam jnana karmad anavritam’.
He is very much caught up with the karma-aspect of life. Thank you.
Question : Hare Krishna, Maharaja. You said a good teacher presents the matter in a very simple
way. So, you presented everything in a very simple way. Thank you for that. [BCS : [Laughter]
All glories to Srila Prabhupada]. Maharaja, you said that we are very much fortunate, that at least
we know where we have come from, that at least we know where we come from. The question is
there now. People say we come from the spiritual sky, from the Vaikuntha and there are a group
of devotees who will say that we come from the body of Maha-Vishnu. This understanding is
there that we fell down and again we come back to the body of Maha-Vishnu, and again fall back
and again go to the body of Mahavishnu. That is okay. The original source is the body of MahaVishnu. Still that confusion will be there that where I have come from..
My immediate response to that will be, let’s not waste our time. And it is actually Prabhupada’s
warning… Because Prabhupada told us emphatically, don’t waste time… During Prabhupada’s
time also there was that consideration, not exactly Maha-Vishnu. Whether the living entity
comes from Krishna Loka or whether the living entity comes from the Brahma Jyoti.
Prabhupada said, “Don’t waste your time”. Because you will never be able to undestand where
you came from, because our cause of fall down is not in the material nature. Our cause of our
fall down or our origin is not in the material nature, it is in the spiritual sky. Now again, to go
back to Somebody once who was a big proponent of that theory that the conditioned souls were
never in the spiritual sky and they are originating from the body of Maha-Vishnu.
I just made a simple question to that person. When a living entity goes back to Vrindavana, then
Who is his origin ? You get the point ? You are saying that the origin of the living entity is
Maha-Vishnu. First question. Can somebody go back to Goloka Vrindavana from this situation ?
And he admitted, yes. When he goes back to Goloka Vrindavana, then who is his origin. Then
he himself admitted, Sankarsana, Balarama. So, it will depend like where we are situated. Now
we are in a conditioned state.
Let us deal with this situation, where we are now. Where we came from we won’t be able to find
out from this situation. Let us not consider where we came from. Rather let us consider two
factors, where we are now and where should we go. Let us utilize our time to deal with these
two things. Specially our present…Like Bhaktivinod Thakur’s statement in this respect:
Forget the past that sleeps and ne’er
The future dream at all
Live with the times that are with thee
And progress thee shall call
Forget the past that sleeps. Deal with the time that are with thee, that is with you…Deal with the
present. That is the real progress, that is the real spiritual situation.
Okay, I will stop now, Thank you very much.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!